Friday, April 13, 2012

Proof that World of Tanks is rigged

Update: due to the undying interest in the topic, I did a more serious research in the topic, read that instead!

I wrote that I have the hunch of World of Tanks being a rigged game, where via matchmaking, tinkering with penetration (and probably hit) chances and damage numbers the developers guarantee that everyone remains close to the average in terms of kills and wins, so no one quits either because of "too easy", nor "im pwned by nolifers lol".

The title is misleading because I still don't (and can't) have a real proof. What I have is something that very much correlate to my theory and has one alternative explanation only: that I'm one of the very best players of the World (which is unlikely). My girlfriend and me started new accounts. No money was paid and we only play with Marder II (and to reach it, Ltractor and PzJager I). The idea is that the Marder II has 128mm penetration, therefore it can penetrate everything it can face if the match is unrigged and even if its penetration is halved, still can penetrate everything but T5 heavy front armor. Its gun dispersion is small and and the minimum shell damage is OK too. So unless the rigging is extreme, like more than 50%, it can stand up to anything the matchmaker can provide. So the Marder II can ignore rigging and has the results that an unrigged match would provide.

What results am I talking about? This:

Yes, top 5 reached with a tank that can't be stealth-nerfed. And the matches were weird too. They mostly started by 6-8 tanks on our side dead in 3 minutes. I guess they were the average players who were near 50% win and "deserved" a loss. They had no chance against the enemy average players due to decreased penetration, hit and damage. Then the enemy started to die, since the remaining of our team (besides AFK-ers, bots and leeches hiding in the corner) were also good players who were placed to the team for a loss. I often saw awesome play, not just from my girlfriend and me, but from random teammates.

The ultimate proof would be to start buying gold ammo and play with top tier tanks showing that the same results are reachable if they can't nerf you to the level of average players. However I'm definitely not in the mood of giving money to this company.

This game could be awesome if it would be fair. But now it's just annoying that we have to carry AFK-ers, idiots, griefers and suffer undeserved losses to allow the terrible players to enjoy undeserved victories. I understand that to be successful, the game must allow bad players to play. However there is a simple way for that: rating system. Everyone is matched according to his rating, bads against bads, goods against goods. This way everyone would have around 50% win rate. Of course the XP and credit rewards must be higher on high rating and it won't be loved by bad players. So we have to somehow force the company to make the game fair and to prove it by providing detailed combat log.

How can we force them? By having a Marder-strike! Let them know that you want a fair game by playing exclusively on a Marder II! It is already extremely fun, but if other good players enter the T3-5 arena, it will be real good fight. Totally free, as a Marder II can easily provide enough credits to pay for repairs, ammo, consumables, even upgrades like camo net and oculars. This way they both see that we love their game and that they won't see a penny from us until they fix it. Strike!



EVE Business report: Friday morning 8.0B (0.1B gifts 3 PLEX behind for second account, 0.1B spent on Titan project).

Remember that you can participate in our EVE conversations and very soon group activities on the "goblinworks" channel and your UI suggestions are welcomed.

64 comments:

energybomb said...

you, sir, just started a shitstorm of first order.

I am actually quite impressed. What you just did is....enormous.

Hope people catch on to this. The future is very very interesting. My money goes that this will get an official company response.

Anonymous said...

I don't quite see who would benefit from a change. The players seem to love the current system. It is a third the age of EVE and how no pve yet it has grown to be dramatically larger player base than EVE.

If they could more clearly point out who the bad players are so that each moth the worst 5% could drift away, then it seems like they get less money and the players get less content.

MrStrange said...

Seems to me your analytical data is not sufficient to make this kind of conclusion.

I can find some big flaws in your arguments :
- Win rate of the marder 2 : Simplest explanation is that the marder 2 is a very good tank for it's tier. Its actually pretty popular and in the hands of an experienced player sticking to low tiers (high proportion of newbies), can pull extraordinary results.

- Variation of the hit/penetration rate of your T9 TD. This one is actually very strong, but I'm guessing you have a very small pool of results. As you are facing very differents ennemies each time, you need a high number of matches to confirm the trend.

- Impact of a good player on a match, based on your wow experience. In WoW, an experiences arena pvper has three times as many hit points and at least twice the DPS of random joe. Plus god-like resilience. He's the Maus in the tier 2 battle. in WOT, the best pvper in a random match has the exact same tools as the rest of the team. Even if he is very good, he will still suffer from the limitations of his team mates and bad luck. The wow pvper can take half the ennemy team on his own.

Fawr said...

Are you sure that you aren't just seeing the matchmaking system take its time to work out that your new tanks are really being run by someone experienced?

Just like an experienced team of Wow gladiators suddenly switching to alts would have a really good win ratio until the matchmaking system worked out how good they really were.

Peter Petermann said...

totally going to play marder II this weekend =)

Anonymous said...

well, keep in mind that is one rating, of many. win/loss is a stat that is quite meaningless when compared to the rest of them. when playing the low tiers, it is full of people who are just learning the game.
the game is very successful with team play, so if you and your girlfriend were teaming up, its very easy to rack up a win rate like you have.
you will not have a win rate like that with tier 6's and up.
by tier 8, well over 50% of the player base has a fair grip on how to play.

Frostys said...

The marder was voted on the forum for tank must likely to solo an enemy team so it is indeed the best choice for this experiment but you are still wrong imo. More and more "wtf no pen shot" claimend by players are being explained by good player on the forum on a daily basis and the integration of game replay recording made it even easyer as people can see what happened and apply game mecanic to the event.

Kelindia said...

For those that thing his win percent will go down you are likely wrong. With the recent patch changes there are new skills and perks available that would dramatically increase his win percentage. Things like having your commander tell you when you are spotted is huge in a marder for when a bunch of KV's are rolling towards your base at high health. There's also another gunner perk that allows your AP round shots to have increased chances of modular and crew damage which is huge against M22 locusts who can be very hard to hit and may light you up to arty.

I expect if he continues to play that his win percentage will only go up. What would be interesting would be to see how high that percentage would be if he did pay for all the possible advantages. He could run a platoon of three marders. Gaining 50% more experience would get you ther perks I listed above so much faster

Anonymous said...

Each side has to bring newbies and good players together. The good players have to carry the newbies and afkers. That's the only way to create a 50% team win ratio. Of course, that's why hardcore players talk about the survival rate as victory, not just simple team victory. So that your survival rate of 62% is really your ability, and your victory of 84% is the aggregate of the team's ability. The newbie contribute towards 22% of your 84% victory. That means your team without you have a win rate of only 22%. Without you to carry the newbie to boost their team win rate to 50%, then the noobs will quit the game.

Xenoph said...

>And the matches were weird too. They mostly started by 6-8 tanks on our side dead in 3 minutes. I guess they were the average players who were near 50% win and "deserved" a loss.

So you're saying that these players died not because they were stupid to rush out and get shot but because they were destined to be losing?

Bullshit, especially in lower tiers. There is much more to WoT than just penetration values.
It's about map tactics and critical decisions in certain situations a battle makes you face. (Also he doesn't seem to know about weakspots.)

If you're stupid, you will be stupid with well penetrating gold ammo too. Rigging penetration values only alters one aspect of many in a battle.

Gevlon said...

@Xenoph: and don't you think that in half of the matches the enemy should have lost half team in 3 mins? Why "always" us?

Anonymous said...

If this proves anything it would be that Marder II is less overpowered than T1 Cunningham which is used to gain 95% win ratio. ;)
For me it proves only that playing in platoons in low tier battles gives you more advantage than later on.
Did you try doing this in less powered vehicle? I think results will be very close.

Anonymous said...

Did you saw the shitstorm started on their EU official forums when someone posted a link to your first arthicle ?

The thread is here

http://forum.worldoftanks.eu/index.php?/topic/103568-the-secret-of-world-of-tanks/

Aureon said...

League of Legends has hidden rating-based matchmaking.
Not hard to implement.

Anonymous said...

RedTide platoon stays at the top of victory rate. Did they stop playing to stay at the top of the victory/battle ratio?

scotth said...

Maybe the game is rigged, and maybe it isn't. The arguments and 'data' presented require ignoring too many variables, and a number of leaps of faith to support your hypothesis.

However, this study does reinforce the hypothesis that players tend to attribute high win ratios to their own skill, and low win ratios to external factors beyond their control.

Kristopher said...

Looks like the folks at WoT fixed it.

Marder IIs now get shoved into upper tier fights.

Anonymous said...

I'll confirm that the game is rigged exactly as Goblin describes. I've noticed the exact same symptoms he has described regardless of what tank I play. I recall being 20 games over 50% and then I ended up losing 20 games in a row until I hit 50% again and guess what started winning again until I get slightly ahead then a big losing streak all over again. Examining the game play I notice that when I'm far ahead of break even my shots bounce, miss, richochet more often. My IS8 gets 1 shotted regularly, I've seen opponent's tanks destroyed only to come back to life, and seen my tanks take mysterious damage until death. The last one I've seen a few times where I will be sitting behind cover far away from other tanks then next thing you know I get messages like my track is hit, we're damaged, and crap. But all the while I took no shots from anything. No hits, explosions, near explosions, dings, or anything. The tank literally fell apart before my eyes without taking a single hit. The other thing I noticed is that when I fall under 50% I play superb games. I'm taking and making shots that shouldn't be hitting or doing damage. I'm doing 50% damage to the frontal armor of a Maus in my Patton, miracle shots like getting someone at 700 meters and one shotting them somehow, or ammo racking someone as they're driving by through a 1 inch crack. If you pay really close attention everyone will notice these and they occur in a pattern and on a frequency that is impossible to ignore. As I'm writing this I was 47 games over 50%. Guess what... for some reason the other side always kills first and wipes out half my team before we even get 1 kill. And now I'm only 35 to games over. That's right 12 losses in a row, one of my tanks died mysteriously again, most of my shots miss, bounce, or richochet. And the other team seems to be able to destroy my tier 8-10's in about 2-3 hits in every game. Hits to the track takes half my life, while my hits to other people's tracks do 0 damage. I even bounced 4 times off a M7 priest with my Patton.

Anonymous said...

This sounds like the voodoo that there are hot and cold streaks in sports, win /lose, hitting, free throws etc.

Streaks happen. Collect the data and see if your "winning and losing streaks" occure more or less than what would be statistically expected.

For example if you are an average player (50th percentile) then:

The probability of consecutive wins/losses is:

streak chance of occurring
length
2 .50^2=25.00% 1 in 4
3 .50^3=12.50% 1 in 8
4 .50^4= 6.25% 1 in 16
5 .50^5= 3.125% 1 in 32
10 .50^10=0.0977% 1 in 1024
20 .50^20=0.0001% 1 in 1048576

If you played 32 "sets" of 5 battles (160 total battles) you would statistically expect 1 streak of 5 wins or losses.

Show me the data!

Anonymous said...

I simply can't agree or disagree to this speculation.....what I have seen is that by changing tanks as soon as the losing streak starts i.e. 3 matches, I get a lot more winning than losing on a regular basis. And from the original description, the marder 2 even with gold can bounce when hitting at extreme angles to relatively weak armour. Add this to the dispersion to the top gun means that at long range you simply cannot pick a weak spot or even a flat surface, you may hit a 30mm side at 2 or 3 degrees, it will just skip off and not pen.

Anonymous said...

I always bounce rounds off the M7, ALWAYS. It does not matter what angle i shoot the bloody thing on the first shot will always bounce. And bouncing kill shots happen all the time!!! My best kill tally in one match is 9. I have missed out on ten kills many many many times as my rounds will just bounce of my 10th 11th or 12th target. The worst was sitting on 9 kills and shooting five times at at T57 side on at 200 mtrs in the open. Miss bounce miss bounce bounce... How exactly does a 76mm projectile fail to pen 10mm armor? What did i have, a spud gun? Played over 1000 matchs in my marder. hate the nerf by the 7.5 patch. And convinced the game needs "adjusting".

Anonymous said...

WoT is rigged big time.

I played 2 months and paid 70 euros on goods.

Never ever did my win chanse increase. Always 51% winnings and 49% loses.

Moment i had some wins i would end up with total morrons next 10 games which would be lost then.

This game is nothing else but Russian Communism. No one will be special. No matter how good you are you end up with 50%. Would you play a game which forces you to lose 50% of the games ? While a 5 year old kid that plays WoT also wins and loses 50% of the games.

No matter how good you are. If you would be a top 1% gamer in World Of Warcraft. In WoT you always be a 50%.

Anonymous said...

Last Anonymous is just Bad@tanks.

Have now got 1.5k games on the NA server. Running at 64% win rate with avg exp of 816. (Freshmeatiest)

I use tier 7-8 heavies mainly (with my T29 at a 73% WR). I have not found any bias in the system to make me lose.

A lot of the previous good points by Gevlon are now redundant, as you can buy Gold rounds with Credits (though at an inflated price).

I can buy an extra penetration shell for the T29 at 4k credits. I will lose money using them, but am happy for that when I face a Tier 9 tank (this is a tank two levels higher than my own, the max I can face in this tank).

Good application of the mechanics of the game (use of cover and hulldown positions are the biggest) will keep you winning.

Being unable to check your map, driving into known firelanes when no red dots are around and staying still with no arty cover will account for most people losing and blaming the game.

Anonymous said...

Well,

sometimes i am a real sniper. It is not important if an enemy stays 100 or 350m away from me. 4 from 5 shells hit.
Five games later with the same vehicle, on the same map it seems as if I forget what I learned. 4 from 5 shells flies everywhere but not to goal.

Its random, ofcourse, but why is it per game and not per shot.

Anonymous said...

nearly having 2 tier x's i have noticed that my shots may do 50-75% of the damage stated the shells can do yet i'll be hit all the time at 100% damage from the enemy tank.
the game feels stale in that whatever tank im in chances are it will die on 4th shot received, is7, ferdi, m103 lights etc.

every time the game has been updated something gets worse and at the moment it is 0% damage hits.

just make the game fair, if anything maybe add the average efficiency of the teams combined because so often you see a 15-2 victory unless the game is full of bots?

so many times as arty you see tanks stop pixel perfect for cover.

something to look for when you are 1 on 1... see if you die with 1 block of the reload to go :)

Locust said...

Game is rigged? No.
What it does is mitigate skill level in two places:

1)Randomness of shots/penetration/module damage. You can't shoot more accurately than your gun allows. You can miss, bounce or not light up the engine regardless of skill level.

2) In a random battle you're just 1 dude in a team of 14. No matter how good you are you can only pull so much weight in the match.

3) Your impact on the battle can be further lessened/increased if you're in a lower tier tank facing higher tiers or vice versa. Which is also random.

In other words the game does a fine job of making everyone more or less equal in the long run. And it's legit.

With these three in place you'll always end up in the 46-55% range unless you play in a strong group of 3 all the time. And even that won't help that much.

Rigging the game would just be too complicated, and unnecessary since Wargamimg get the same results with plain and simple probability and statistics math. It would also be crazily risky if shit hits the fan.

tl;dr game is designed so you can't be the hero all the time in random battles, in the long run all players perform roughly the same. You can't have your "I'm superior and you're all scrubs" shit there so deal with it or better yet - quit as you did :)

PS. However this means that team strategy and coordination can have a huge lasting impact on the game and mitigate randomness, so it sounds like Clan Wars are the place to be. You just have to be the team commander and play an RTS, not a grunt driving just one tank :)

PS2. Girl playing WOT, good for you, sir!

Anonymous said...

Haven't all of you thought that it was rigged not in the sense you say it is but by a closed group of bullshit "pro" players, minions of WG, and they will lose or win a match depending on their whims.

Its like corrupt politics in real life where the ones who get the high win ratio are the "popular" people. I bet the ones with high win rate are either:
1)one of their "pro" minions.
2)a new account that they're trying to make "feel good" so that you will think "this is fun I get more wins than loses" I think I'm gonna waste my money on this shit.
3)someone "important/useful" that they want to "feel good" about the game. (ie. media, etc...)

Haven't you noticed many times that its a won match and still the opposing enemy won by some obvious throw away? or that your win is much too easy at other times when you did not even do a thing? (now that they know this they could make steps telling their "minions" to make it "not so obvious" make it "look" as real as possible.

An example was a game I had where my tank got destroyed early so I spectated the game. It came down to 3 vs. 1. The team I was on should win it 3 tanks with at least 89% health (IS, Pz IV and Grille) the sole enemy was an IS at 3% (three percent!) health. To make a long story short it was obviously a "thrown" match to troll people, "maybe" specifically me. I still feel a headache when I think about it.

There are many examples and I had them on replay but haven't you also noticed their old replays can't be used once they patch? Now they will reason - "replay or it never happened". I think its intentional that old replays are unusable once they patch so people wont have proof its all a sham.

Also all these random IGNs who seem to know everything and other times are as dumb as shit, which are in reality multiple/troll accounts of WG "pro" minions, and when they use there "main" accounts - that usually have clan tags belonging to popular clans they just mop the opposition like its a foregone conclusion that they would win?

Its all a show. Haven't you noticed random igns, supposedly "noob" accounts always say "hollywood"? they could even track your IP address so they know its you.

Its all a farce, especially at their SEA server where they have all these sadistic corrupt minded monkey minions making it too obvious (maybe they don't get paid enough to eat shit).

They make it easy in the low tiers so that people would think "I could be good at this" and you shell out hard earned money but then after you spent and they don't like you in whatever way then starts the trolling (ie. TKs but worst: thrown away games)

You suddenly wonder why your in an "unnatural" losing streak and of course you feel depressed. "They" could be hinting you should buy a premium account so you could platoon with some of their "pro" minions. Use "gold" rounds or join powerful clans that are for sure "company" minions.

But then its all bullshit since they control who wins and who loses and they don't care coz these "pro" minions are using their junk accounts when they play to lose (maybe 95% of the time to make it not so obvious)

So now your thinking - well then lets be "friends" with these "minions" so we could have a nice winning record and maybe become one of THEM! well go ahead and try but then that would be just bullshit and wheres the fairness in that?

The game is great but as in many things it seems that greed, politics, sadistic tendencies and corrupt elements, etc... always take over. Maybe after they read this they're gonna make some changes to make "the show" "less obvious".

Anyway, you can ALWAYS play it for FREE so you won't think "WHAT A WASTE" if and when you get trolled.

Anonymous said...

I play only Marder II. I couldn't agree more with rigging accusation . But most of the rigging comes from match making.
If the game was fair after large number of games with a same tank your tank would be ranked as 8th on average. After 200 games that I wrote down my mean rank was 10.5 with a standard deviation of 3.6.
Tell me that is not rigged game please.

Minigin said...

this is ridiculous. this game is not rigged, each gun has variation in its accuracy and pen ranges.

this means that while more often than not you will pen soft spots on tanks, every now and then you will bounce even off very weak spots of armor. this usually will happen if the tank is at an angle which makes a bounce likely but it is certainly not limited to this.

more than this im sick of people making conspiracy theories as to why they are bad at high tier tanks.

its very simple. there are a bunch of us running around who know the game a lot better than you do and we dominate those tiers regardless of how bad our team mates are.

if you arnt well above average your w/r in high tiers will naturally suffer because there is a slight imbalance in terms of competent (or i should say mildly competent) players in higher tiers.

if you play nothing but t2 then yes you should mop the floor with people because you are mostly playing against new players or bads.

im sick of people who come to high tier matches spectate me and pass judgment on how im playing and when you look at their stats they feel entitled to their opinions because they have a 70% w/r in their ms1 after 500 matches and a 45% w/r in anything higher than a t7.

well guess what. its not the same game at high tiers. stop spouting conspiracies and learn the mechanics of the game. its not hard.

Anonymous said...

Wot is far from communism bro. Its a product of capitalism in
good and bad.

kivanen said...

I hope that you don´t have right, because that would decrease my plying motivation radically.
But I have seen some strange things happen, although I haven`t suspected anything this far.
Sometimes it seems that teems are not even. One time our team had three or four tier 3 tank and other team no one. One time tier 3-5 fight other had least one heavy tank KV-1, we had no unless we count vickers lll(lol). One time I shot (with vk3001p, 88mm) to T-50 which had 1% left, nothing happened?! One time I shot with KV-1 another KV-1 long range, it lost 50% by two shots, later i met same kv-1, which had now left 4 % of life, I shot 7 times to turret and to side hull and nothing happened, it still had 4% left. Very often my team is in couple of minutes in situation 2-14 or something like that. My winning rate with KV-1 and PK3001p was about 55% after about 250 battles. Now (after about 280 battles)it has moved to 48 with PK and to 51 with KV and it has been much more difficult to be on the winning side with my other tanks, on the other words my(our) team has lost 70-90 % about battles.
These were my not so scientifical(subjective) observations.

Anonymous said...

I don't need to look at my team score to know if we are going to lose. If I miss some easy shots, such as fully aimed and the shell hits the ground then I know MM has nerfed my team to lose. Vice versa for a win. This happens at least 95% of the time.

Von Tyrconnell said...

Only been playing about two weeks, and I know all about the difference in armour etc., but the game does feel a bit like online poker, there's a spooky feeling that all is not evenly matched. Of course it's rigged.

Anonymous said...

I found this post because I have been noticing the same things. I have seen patterns in the game for some time now. Some days I win almost every match. I will one hit tanks at full health and finish with 8 destroyed tanks. Other days I will be up against the very same tanks and I am doing 20 or 30 damage and missing most of the shots. There is no way I could be randomly loosing by a land slide for 5 hours strait one day and winning all day by a land slide the next day. I have also been looking at other peoples stats and have noticed they are having the same thing happen.

Anonymous said...

I don't understand what all the fuss is about... even if you join a battle but do nothing at all, it will still be a 14 vs 15 battle, so your chances of winning are still pretty close to 50% even if you have zero skill. (roughly speaking, I'd say the chance would be about 14/(14+15)=48%)

Note also that the average win rate of every player combined has to be 50%. So someone with a high win rate has to be "compensated" by people with a low win rate. This could be one person with a very low win rate, but that is unlikely because of what I said above. More likely is that this one high win rate person is compensated by MANY 48% win rate people (because you can't get much lower than 48%). So my guess is that there are a very large number of players with a win rate slighly below 50%, and all of these are "close to" 50%. And that's why most people are close to 50%.

Anonymous said...

no its not MM or RNG, its "traitors" in your team. This can be done in different ways using alt/troll/junk accounts.

How would you know that 1 or even several players in your team were playing from the same place as some players in the opposing team? That they already agreed upon which team wins and which team loses.

Haven't you noticed that some players in your team just DO THEIR BEST TO LOSE. These are power tripping assholes, especially in SEA server, those corrupt pieces of shet monkeys who try to manipulate supposedly "random" games.

Thats where platooning can help vs playing alone coz your up against not just the opposing team but also "traitors" in your own team. Its bad if your playing alone and the odds are stacked against you since your up against smthing organized.

Try playing an account solo and never have "friends". Be as low profile as possible and you will notice some "bizarre" things like why is it that when your tank is stock your win rate is high but then you fully research the tank and now its hard to win in it - its not just "luck". Somehow these pieces of shets are manipulating this game to suit "individuals". Yes its not MM or RNG its a mafia of sadistic/manipulative assholes.

So fuck them and their game I hope they all starve to death.

Jens Wurm said...

I find the whole argumentation to be self-defeating. If anything, you proved that there is NO rigging. After all, that rigging should have tried to keep you down to 50% too, not just the rest of your team. By achieving a far above average result you demonstrated that there is no such mechanism that holds you back. You speculated that those good players in your team were there to be dragged down with a loss. Yet you most often managed to pull off a win despite of this. This directly contradicts the thesis that you were supposed to lose. Either there is no rigging, or it is ineffective - demonstrated by your example.

Half of one team dying early is normal in the dynamics of a low tier game. Subsequently a few remaining good players can often turn the tide.

Here are my girlfriend's statistics:
http://worldoftanks.eu/community/accounts/502218424-FireF/
She has no background whatsoever in FPS games, yet with a bit of tactical assistance (me sitting next to her giving advice) she easily achieved 67% win rate in her low tier matches. It even exceeded 70% at some times.

Anonymous said...

Seems legit.Reached tier X(while paying-cant reach it without)and started a new account playing only tier 1-2.That't it.I regret giving money to this bullshit and above all it started like a fun free to play game and after progressing it only makes you anxious and poor.I was nostalgic of the good times of fun i had playing in low tiers and then magically WG started exploiting my addiction to a fine game by making me pay to win or even progress struggling.

Anonymous said...

There is definitely some sort of team unbalance mechanic in matchmaking.

I'm either on a godlike win streak or a losing streak from hell.

I have also noticed that if I play between the hours of 3am to 7am EST that my W/L goes up dramatically.

Why? My theory, based on what I observer through XVM during streaks, is that MM seems to place CW folk with other CW folk on one team. The other team is usually made up of scrubs.

When calculating the probability of consistent 20 win or loss streaks I would think that the probability is in the millions.

With so much of the player base all experiencing the same things then it can no longer be attributed to random occurrence and must be attributed to mechanics.

MM aside, my friends and I have also noticed what seems to be a performance nerf/boost cycle. This seems to be based on previous recent performance.

All in all the MM system is WOT is garbage. Maybe it's exactly what WG wanted but as a player who's generally dominant in all video games I don't like it.

I don't like the idea of my fate being pre-determined by a garbage system that's designed to boost the ego's of garbage players.

People troll these kind of topics on forums because they are those exact people. Or they reside within a clan who engages in a lot of CW and aren't typically subjected to being stuck with the bad teams.

Whatever the case may be i've experienced both ends of the spectrum. At one point I had a 57% W/L... left the clan and stopped with CW and now i'm sticking at 50%.

Ciocan said...

I have the real profs: screenshot and game recording.
http://i1238.photobucket.com/albums/ff494/ciocanxxl/shot_003_zpsa5159944.jpg
What are chance to win that game? Zero...
I have a recording, but i am to lazy to upload, my hummel shots outside the target and some shoots i even don't see where are hit... They are outside of the screen...
Another observation is that after my premium is ended i start to shoot very bad: missing target, ricochet, penetration without damage...

Anonymous said...

I also agree, WoT is rigged in many ways.

From my experience, the teams must not be rigged. WoT has a large idiotic playerbase (mostly children and old cunts).

I think there are 3 default setups for your tank before the match starts:

--> Normal, which means you do average damage and average penetration, your gun hits average, probably your armor bounces average

--> Bad, which means your gun does very little damage, penetration is down by maybe 25%, you experience ridicolous bounces and misses. Your tank will be set on fire by every shot, no matter where the enemy hits you. This game is set to be lost.

--> Good, which means your gun does above average damage and penetrates very well. Your tank bounces most ridicolous shots, your guns hits most ridicolous shots for full damage. You set enemies on fire, crits, etc.

After all, i need to say that even with the "good" setup your team can loose a round, there are several reasons for this (like suiciding, afks, clever enemies) and the opposite.

One more point is funny: I don't read here many comments against that rigging-theory, most do agree. On the other side, when such a topic is posted on the WoT forums, one will be flamed to death. It seems WGs employees are advised to keep such theories away (mostly with the RNG theory, 25% statistics shit). And well, it's nearly impossible to proove the opposite despite players experience.

Sure there are players with 55% or 65% WR overall. But WG can't nerf them anymore, because bringing such players back to 50% would mean constant looses, which would probably mean they would stop playing at all. And still, as mentioned above, even with "bad" setup a good player can win a round (but i know it's damn hard work then when your shots don't hit, don't do damage and your tank catches fire every shell).

Anonymous said...

...and these 55 and up percent players could well be WG minions or accounts specifically set up just to show rigging to disprove rigging accusations, remember ITS AN INTERNET GAME THEY CAN DO WHATEVER THEY WANT!

and btw the "bots" could even be WGs own or some clanners minions as well setup to ensure 1 side (there side) wins.

I know of "food" clans specifically set up to lose to "boost" main clan accounts. There are also "bounty hunts" where clans specifically target certain players. It is true that there are "favored" players.

You notice the win streaks where you do almost nothing and win? well they "gave" you these wins, and also when you do your best but your team seems to be all trolls (which they are) and you frustratingly lose? they deliberately lose games for you.

So if your looking for an uncorrupted game look smwhere else and starve these assholes to death by not giving them any of your hard earned money. Also spread the word of the Bullshit that is WoT now resorting to taking lunch money from kids.

Joe Twis said...

WoT is....well Idk whether it's rigged or not. But I've experienced something unusual in WoT. In a 6-8 tiers capture the flag battle, we're overpowered with IS -3 n' tigers , and our enemies only had shets, medium tanks, n' a bunch of M6s.

After awhile, when I was winning 8 vs 7, all of a sudden, my teammates acted like newbies and spreading like crazy across the map considering that they've killed 2 or 1 tanks, n' leaving all of the enemies inside the flag area with only me defending the flag. Only me defending the flag with T-150.

But what a fooking miracle, that time my shots hit 100% damage against their T34 frontal turret armor. FRONTAL T34 TURRET with my 107mm. I managed to kill 4 of em' leaving only KV-2 , M6,and a hellcat.

All of the sudden, my shots missed n' missed n' bounced and leaving me with low health then died -__-

And how fooking unfortunate that our IS-3 shots at M6 legit side armor, LEGIT SIDE ARMOR at 90degrees, with his derp cannons and did 0% damage knowing that M6 has a low side armor, and look how easily M6 can penetrated the frontal armor of IS-3 with his stock cannon -__-
And of course we lost.

Looks like the mechanics that they made doesn't work quite well in some matches including this one, and They should fix this matchmaking too real quick, or else, people won't give a fuck to this game n' just randomly leave.

Anonymous said...

I like many others have noticed patterns emerging regards our own personnal quality of play, i dont need facts and figures to know thats not the shot i fired, i can accurately predict wether we win or lose after firing my first shot, or if enemy first shot on me is an ammorack, lol, i know a lot of you hear me clearly, my main issue is those that just dont see it, i have never considered myself intelligent, but it seems i have an insight that many others lack, or refuse to believe, the game has changed over the last 2 updates,

Anonymous said...

"Win rate of the marder 2 : Simplest explanation is that the marder 2 is a very good tank for it's tier."
You sir, do not take into account that on average other marders in the other team would nullify any advantage.

The only real critique is the low # of games. Do 1000 and then we'll speak.

mikeathome said...

Did you noticed that they did take out the hitrate out of the official player statistics?

Well, here's my theory: It was taken out because it supports your findings.

I have 8k battles, my hitrate is 68%, my WR is 47%. I am not a good player, but every battle I hit about 10 shots avg. and my avg. damage is 630. I play only Tier VII/VIII/IX. If everything is balanced I should be around 1200 min! I have sometimes 20 battles in a row were I can't pen shit, even with an E75. After the first two shots I know who will win this battle.

I have ~500 battles since I bought premium (which I now regret), and during these 500 battles my WR is 33%. All of a sudden I became really bad. My overall WR already dropped from 47.5% to 46.98%.

They collected my money and now frustrate me out...

mike

Anonymous said...

I play on WoT europa, I noticed the same pattern, probably from reasons of being profitable, WoT has a somehow moderating matching script, if one suddenly is going up in performance records...is simply moderated to a lower position by simple altering tank status. All is under control of money maker logic.The premium players who pays wot,must be mantained in the game, so the medium players, the noobies are also kept between win easy and tragic loss , allways wot wins and premium players

Anonymous said...

If you feel that something is wrong, stop paying money for this shit. I mean WoT could have been a nice game without manipulation...

But, like someone wrote above, it's like a show, like Wrestling for example. It's all pre-calculated before the match begings. Some are OK with this but those who are not stop paying for WoT!! I want that this company will go back in making browser games like tetris etc.

Anonymous said...

havent anyone noticed the wierd bounces when a tank is at low hp(especially russian)?And you on the na server....you dont have the polish and cz players...But i have to agree that this game is somehow rigged because of the strange bounces and misses or no dmg hits when you had a win streak.I also compared stats when i was on a moron team,guess what...the other team had MUCH better stats all the way.

Kevin89 said...

this game is definitely rigged , the latest trick is massive lag spike right at the critical moment, also have had my tank controls interfered with as I was about do something that might change the game. Tanks that sit on ridges and you cant hit them. The phantom hits that cause damage. Lose tracks when they are not visible. easy shots that should do damage and do nothing, and on and on. This is just software that emulates a game and has nothing to do with skill, I am a pretty good player and pay attention to all kinds of things but my win rate never changes or improves. strangely enough tanks that I didnt like or felt not good about are 50 + win rates . Not forgetting the absurd battles where you cannot hit or damage the enemy and everybody is dead after five minutes

Anonymous said...

the wot company starts to look like the greedy blizzard entertainment,
do anything to get the last few bucks you have.
I also noticed that for some reason my upgoing xp point drop by team missmatches(completly), one kill shots while i do not see them at all(yes i moved positions), low tier tanks do extreme damage to my tank while i have more armour and am 3 to 4 tiers higher then to what he has, and once i shoot at his tracks or weak spots nothing happens.
Next i latly noticed a slow motion in the game slow responce in reaction time to my tanks(takes 2 sec to repond to what ever key action you do, even shooting).
From tier 8 and beyond realy sucks, i meet tanks/arties that can hit me from the otherside of the map, while there are no red teams in the area at all to be able to spot me(boom dead in one shot).
Tanks that hit me while behind rocks/solid houses or even in valey where no one can see me or hit me(boom dead by invissible enemie).
And there are more expamples the few weeks, yes weeks i went up in xp ratio to 50 % suddenly i lose the games one after the other while i did not play any different as before (dropping to 46 % win ratio).
I noticed that i been entered i a game with complete idiots who all either go on one way, or shout to mutch (80 % of the last few weeks).
One game i had killed 6, and lose the game, xp points below 300, come one get real, you should get xp point by hitting enemies and not if you win a batlle or not.
This was not so before the last update.
So in general as what i noticed, the game is rigged big time, and am wondering how long it would take until someone else starts to notice this and stops playing wot for good.
The way this goes now i am thinking of removing the game for good and never play it again.

just a few things to mention and what i noticed in the game, as soon you pass a win ratio of 48 % you are bound to lose 3 out of 4 matches, and get no xp point beyond 300, meddals yes points no.

Anonymous said...

its great that someone has exposed this. I have had run of 15 consequestive 1 shot I am dead games, then in the next game fire somewhere near an opponent off in the distance and its a one shot kill. I have had a suspicion that there is averaging going on. I suspect something is going on!

Anonymous said...

I've noticed the same issues several previous posts have illuminated. The infamous matches where the enemy is literally shooting nuclear tipped rounds at you-and when you shoot back you're lucky to hit or pen anything. What frustrates me the most are the tanks that 'disappear' when you have one more shot to kill it-I know camo is a factor but come on; the tank was in the open at less than 40m. Unless it has a cloak shield it shouldn't disappear. If WOT had some competition that was legitimate, the questionable damage and MM mechanics would be fixed when WOT started losing players.

Anonymous said...

Its all good because in about a month War Thunder brings out its ground vehicles - which will make WoT look like a steaming pile of elephant shit.

Giving WoT some competition is likely all that is needed, they will HAVE to make things cheaper and better to play to keep the fanbase.

I agree the game is horribly rigged. There are times in my Obj704 where I'll be a huge win streak talking 20-30 games in a row then all of a sudden the BL10 with is 215-358 penetration can't even go through 50mm armour at 90degrees. I'll get 1 shotted, lose all my modules and crew in a matter of seconds of being spotted (I have sixth sense so know exactly when im spotted)

The times when I've lost like 10+ games in a row then all of a sudden my OBJ704 is facing like tier6-7 tanks and breathing hellfire similar to some sort of God-like deamon ready to wipe the whole team out by itself single handedly.

I find it very hard to believe that others haven't experienced these things and if you do the math with statistics - going off my hit ratio with say the ISU152 and OBJ704 the average damage dealt by these tanks is insanely low. My hit rates are well into the high 70% and on the ISU152 is over 80% - yet average damage of like 300-400... with a gun that deals out well over 750 on a penetrating hit... not to mention it can pen any tank in the game, oh yeah that statistic sounds legit.

I've played 5.5k matches - ITS BLATANTLY OBVIOUS that in the last 4-5patches the game has become unbelievably rigged. I remember back like 2 years ago, this game was actually good fun and even playing tier7-8 my W/L ratio was up in the 65%+ now I cant get it above 51% whether I play low or high tier vehicles it ALWAYS satys at around 51%...

Anonymous said...

I think its also a matter of common sense. One day, Hetzers blow up most things and then the next day they are bouncing shot after shot off of Valentines. Yes, its rigged.

Anonymous said...

I concur the game is clearly rigged (7K Games) and I commonly experience the events as described thru out post. Sometimes the Tank performs well other times its trash. In trash mode even Gold bounces off the softest targets. Hope they fix game.

Anonymous said...

This game has gotten ridiculously frustrating to play. Rigged, nuff said

Anonymous said...

This game never will be fixed. As originally they said: it works as they like to work.

Btw just google wot and bot problem and you will see how bad is the situation, and they have no intention at all to fix anything.

Anonymous said...

I know you are correct here. It's a money making franchise. Upgrading tanks only gets you into higher tiers so heavier stuff is shooting at you. The balance remains the same all the way through. Tier 1 and 2 are no different than tiers 8,9, and 10.

At times you can go out with a KV1 for instance and kill everything you shoot at, and nobody can hardly touch you. Take that same tank out a few hours later and it's all reversed, you can't even scratch anyone and they can all one shot you. Yes, I have been one shotted more than once in the KV1 by smaller lessor tanks.

Anonymous said...

ok guys I have a 3800 rating after 6 months of playing, since 9.0 if I receive 1 shot someone is dead or something is broken it happened 5 times! 5 times in a row! on my t 49 dead driver 1st shot low damage, the other team has 5 people with 27 k battles and my team has 2 players with 18 k battles especially if I platoon, they are definanitly doing something, don't take my word for it you can check it yourself but they are causing my friends to stop playing because we cant carry the team the idle bots and the afk people and the retards in general cmon WOT fix MM where you only fight tanks 1 teir above yours and put the same nuber of good and bad players on both teams equal thanks guys GLHF!

Anonymous said...

I came here out of frustration that I suddenly started performing much worse with all my tanks. Either I suddenly play like shit or my tanks are behaving differently.. good article, you may be right!

Anonymous said...

Hey, I'm relatively new to the game maybe 6k battles but after reading several of the comments and experiencing some mighty strange things in the game myself I have to agree that WOT is playing it's own kind of game here! Come on, are all of these folks whiners? Are they all just making this crap up? Really!? I don't think so. From the missed (really!) shots, to the game over in three and a half minutes and the other team or yours isn't missing even one man?! To your tank sitting behind a huge and suddenly blowing up in your face!! WTF!
I was in my tier 1 Renault NC-31 way back in the beginning with only a min or so left in a losing battle. I came face to face with two T18's, one in front and one behind. I one shotted the one in front and turned and did the same to the one behind. WTF was their reply. Accused me of using gold rounds which at the time i wasn't even sure what they were! lol! I've experienced the win/lose streaks everyone mentioned. Don't understand the MM at all sometimes!!! Also noticed my first battle in a new tank MM put me top of the list. Hmmm! It was a long time after that that she was ever that good to me.
And I have to say I truly believe there is a lot to what everyone is saying. Not that anyone would admit to it! Sure there are kids that play that are no doubt more skilled than I am at 59, great! More power to em! There are also folks that eat, sleep, and dream this game. Whatever! I think all anyone is asking for is JUST MAKE THE DAMN THING FAIR! And I think we know the definition. Yes there are always variables there has to be. Don't play around with it. It's a great game, but some of these strange happenings aren't because of "variables"! I have no stats, no proof, just my experiences. Do I really need more? Stop effing with a good thing!

Anonymous said...

Wow.... OK I've been playing for years, mostly arty as my computer lags like crazy when there are too many tanks around, and I can tell you most games whether we'll win or lose before first contact is made. Your win/loss ratio is far more based on tactics and deployment then anything else. I play a few scout tanks, and have most of the tier 2-8 arties for all four lines. I get a wide variance in effectiveness, but I learn which arty is effective against which tanks, so I improve with a tank the more I play it. I have bouts of win streaks, and losing streaks but that's just statistically inevitable. If you really believe there's manipulation, get a team of 3 in a platoon, open two accounts and play a t1 tanks, on one account play to the best of your abilities. The other like a 4 year old uber noobs. With 3 tanks negated over enough battles to apply "handicaps" if the win rates continue to be close then there might be something to it.

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...
I came here out of frustration that I suddenly started performing much worse with all my tanks. Either I suddenly play like shit or my tanks are behaving differently.. good article, you may be right!

09 September, 2014 15:20

Are you playing a tank that has been "nerfed", like the T18, which now it seems can be actually hurt a bit by other tier 2 tanks now.

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